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Thread: does Brammo not really understand el Moto’s?

              
   
   
  1. #21
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    Thanks magicsmoke for directing me to the English tab. That company sure makes a lot of different stuff.

    Chef, thanks for that direct link to the explanation of the "Mechatronic" concept. It sounds technically interesting, but kind of complicated. Personally, I prefer the KISS concept of design. As someone who has been stranded alongside the road in the middle of nowhere more than once due to a mechanical failure, I have come to the conclusion that the fewer parts there are to break, the less likely you vehicle will stop when you don't want it to. Plus, I don't care that much about performance beyond that needed to keep up with traffic and to get me where I want to go and back again. I had pre-ordered an Empulse 10.0, not because of its top speed, but rather due to its extended range. But I have no doubt that I am in a very small minority on any motorcycle forum, whether it is EV or IC.

  2. #22
    teddillard
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    Quote Originally Posted by markcycle View Post
    A two speed motor is the real answer. In my case off the line as a four turn motor high speed as a two turn motor. Gearboxes make no sense when you can do the same with a electric/electronic solution. The only reason to use a gearbox is because one wants to use a off the shelf motor or doesn't know who to design a motor.
    Oh crap... so there's a third series of tests we gots to run?

    Seriously, that's a really interesting angle on it, and one I must have missed in previous discussions... thanks Mark. Any examples of data out there?

  3. #23
    Senior Member markcycle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddillard View Post
    Oh crap... so there's a third series of tests we gots to run?

    Seriously, that's a really interesting angle on it, and one I must have missed in previous discussions... thanks Mark. Any examples of data out there?
    What really makes sense is a two speed motor with Wye Delta switching this give four speeds. Even two motor coupled through a overriding clutch makes more sense than a transmission. This is something I did on my first motorcycle build the "BBM" you can see it on my youtube page "markkccycle"

    You can package everything one gets using a transmission into the design of the motor, this is all old school motor tech, with the result being a much smaller design, more efficient and simpler. Motors and motor drive technology has been moving away from transmissions, and the results have been increased efficiency. Electric motors run practically everything in the industrial world and engineers have studied the electric motor for 100 years now. Take a modern CNC machine huge peak torque demands and a huge speed range yet at most a two speed gear box with most today being direct drive.

    the only thing they are doing is emulating the feel of a ICE bike, at the cost of other parameter.

    Imagine if Edison wanted to make the electric light flicker so it could be like a gas lamp to make it easier to sell.

    Time will play this out as I said even Tesla eliminated the gear box
    Last edited by markcycle; 05 May 2011 at 0835.
    Trying to Change the old school ways of doing things
    But I never Never try to break the laws of Physics
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  4. #24
    Senior Member billmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechanic View Post
    Of course this is in step with a company that thought the Enertia was highway safe…
    Friday I rode home from work down highway US-1 on my DR-200, and it was a great ride - beautiful day and I even saw a dolphin in the lagoon. Yesterday, my wife and I, both on DR-200s took some back roads down to highway 60, and rode it out to an old bar and grill that's been at Jackass Crossing since before there were roads (hunters and ranchers used to get there by cattle trail or boat). Another great ride, and the bike was totally up to the task of riding those highways. Come to think of it, when I was in high school I used to regularly ride my DT50 down highway 43 in Central California, and it was nothing but a thing.

    I wouldn't dream of taking a light bike like that down I-5 in the middle of the night (or any time of day for that matter), through Atlanta on I-95, or down the 405 in LA. They don't have the horsepower or higher speed stability to do it safely.

    Just because a bike isn't up to tackling some of our largest, most hazardous, fastest and most heavily congested freeways doesn't mean it isn't perfectly suited to riding on the majority of our nation's highways which are not rated for as high of speeds, and are far less congested. Riding light bikes on a lot of highways is less fraught with peril than surface-street riding in rush-hour downtown metropolitan traffic regardless of how much horsepower is at your disposal (in fact there, light bikes often have the edge in agility).

    And more to topic, I think Mark's headed in the right direction as a more efficient way to get the benefits offered by a multispeed transmission.
    Last edited by billmi; 08 May 2011 at 0731.

  5. #25
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    When I started riding there were no horsepower laws restricting motor vehicle access to freeways (maybe horses, though). I used to ride my 5-hp Vespa 125 on the freeway and my teenage friends used to do the same with 50cc sports motorcycles (like the 6.5 hp @ 10,000 rpm Tohatsu Runpet Sport, which were popular around here). We would jump on the freeway, tuck tight behind the first semi-truck that came by and get pulled along at 60 mph (in those days most truckers didn't carry guns). The Tohatsu's were good for about 10 miles at that speed before the piston holed. My Vespa was up to the task, until I lost the draft and then it would slow down to '49 Chevy speeds.

    It was fun while it lasted, until someone in the legislature noticed us jerks and dropped motorcycle licensing laws and a 15 hp freeway requirement on us. But by then I owned a Honda Super Hawk and there was no where in the country where I couldn't ride and keep up with traffic. You really don't need a lot of power to travel U.S. highways, you just have to ride smart and keep any eye out for the other guy.

    I see no problem with electric motorcycles being on the highway, but you do have to be careful and ride like you are invisible - but then that applies to every motorcycle, even ones saving themselves with loud pipes. When it was running well, I would take my GPR-S on the local freeway and I never had a problem - as long as I stuck to the level section. Going up hill at freeway speeds might have made me a hood ornament, though.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by markcycle View Post
    A two speed motor is the real answer. In my case off the line as a four turn motor high speed as a two turn motor.
    Isn't this just an awkward means of voltage (and current) control? Just use a controller with twice the current capability at low voltage (for low speed, like off the line) and you accomplish the same thing without the dual winding.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Skeezmour's Avatar
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    Harder to find controllers with 2x the current right now that don't cost a small fortune. I'll give some honest feedback on this setup soon.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugnut View Post
    Isn't this just an awkward means of voltage (and current) control? Just use a controller with twice the current capability at low voltage (for low speed, like off the line) and you accomplish the same thing without the dual winding.
    Or use two motors, with two controllers. Twice the current (battery side), twice the power and torque, yes more expensive, but still cheaper than a high current controller and big motor.
    Last edited by cycleguy; 08 May 2011 at 1648.

  9. #29
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    So, basically, the difference between dropping a single gear V8 into your bike, and a BIG motor/controller/high volt/amp battery pack is that the electric version is quieter, and more elegant.

    http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/imag...-gallery12.jpg

    http://evmc2.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/009.jpg?w=600

  10. #30
    Moderator Nuts & Volts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren View Post
    So, basically, the difference between dropping a single gear V8 into your bike, and a BIG motor/controller/high volt/amp battery pack is that the electric version is quieter, and more elegant.

    http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/imag...-gallery12.jpg

    http://evmc2.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/009.jpg?w=600
    Could you please clarify what you mean here? I could say a billion things wrong about that statement
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