To what extant can an owner modify the Enertia?

[Z-naught]

Hello everyone. This my first post here. I was motivated to join the forum when I found the community here engaged in active discussions regarding the Brammo Enertia. I've been following the Enertia's development with a keen interest and was very pleasantly surprised to learn of the recent price reduction. I imagine myself to be a prime example of Brammo's target demographic (psychographic?) in that I've always been attracted to motorcycling but have never owned or ridden a street motorcycle due to my aversion to internal combustion engines, which is largely a consequence of my serious environmental concerns as well as my concerns about the cost of ownership as it relates to internal combustion engine reliability, durability, and maintenance. Out of my desire to become a rider, I've contemplated building my own electric motorcycle, but haven't made any commitment to such a project yet, and now that the Enertia has become significantly more affordable, I may not ever need to perform my own conversion. However, before I resolve to purchase an Enertia, I would like to pose some questions, addressing any Brammo personnel who may have membership here, but also anyone with ideas to share, particularly those intrepid Enertia owners who have actual experience with these bikes.

First, let me provide a frame of reference by stating that I adore the Enertia TTR and consider it as close to my ideal for what I want in an electric motorcycle.

Having read Motorcyclist Online's excellent article regarding the various upgrades performed to the Enertia platform to realize the Enertia TTR, I was particularly intrigued by the selection of Perm Motor's PMS 150 W for those slick race bikes. According to Perm Motor's website, the production Enertia employs a PMS 120 L. Given my desire for a TTR style electric motorbike, would it be feasible for an owner to increase the Enertia's performance by replacing the stock PMS 120 L with a larger synchronous motor from Perm Motor, such as the PMS 150 W that was used in the TTR, or even the PMS 156? It appears that Perm's synchronous motors share the same mounting pattern...

The article mentions the use of the front end of a Triumph Daytona 675 on the TTR. It also mentions that it was mounted to a "...a much stronger and stiffer steering head". What sort of front suspension options and geometries are possible given the steering head of the stock frame?

What is the feasibility of an owner replacing the stock handlebar with racing type 'clip-ons'? Usage of such would lower the rider's posture and reduce aerodynamic drag, albeit slightly, and also result in a bit of a of café racer aesthetic, of which I'm rather fond.

Is there a way to move the foot pegs rearward to facilitate a low, forward leaning riding posture?

In short: To what extant can an owner modify a stock Enertia to enhance its performance?

If the Enertia proves to be amenable to a wide variety of performance enhancing modifications, then I'll run out and buy one. If the Enertia isn't easily modified, then let me suggest that it would behoove Brammo to introduce some changes to future iterations of the bike to allow some flexibility in configuration so that the diverse preferences of riders can be accommodated. Regardless, I think the Enertia is a wonderful achievement and I wish Brammo great success.

Thanks

[JoeRocket]

Welcome. Good questions.

[Brammofan]

Hey BrammoBrian... any chance you can get Aaron on here to contribute to this thread? He's all about modifying things to meet his needs.

[BrammoBrian]

Originally Posted by Z-naught

Hello everyone. This my first post here. I was motivated to join the forum when I found the community here engaged in active discussions regarding the Brammo Enertia. I've been following the Enertia's development with a keen interest and was very pleasantly surprised to learn of the recent price reduction. I imagine myself to be a prime example of Brammo's target demographic (psychographic?) in that I've always been attracted to motorcycling but have never owned or ridden a street motorcycle due to my aversion to internal combustion engines, which is largely a consequence of my serious environmental concerns as well as my concerns about the cost of ownership as it relates to internal combustion engine reliability, durability, and maintenance. Out of my desire to become a rider, I've contemplated building my own electric motorcycle, but haven't made any commitment to such a project yet, and now that the Enertia has become significantly more affordable, I may not ever need to perform my own conversion. However, before I resolve to purchase an Enertia, I would like to pose some questions, addressing any Brammo personnel who may have membership here, but also anyone with ideas to share, particularly those intrepid Enertia owners who have actual experience with these bikes.

Welcome to the forum and (hopefully) welcome to the world of electric motorcycling! Both are great fun. You are correct that you are exactly who we imagined might be interested in the Enertia and I'm very happy to see that the bike has been able to "strike a chord" with you. I'm the Director of Product Development with Brammo, Inc, as well as an Enertia owner myself, so I'd be happy to address as many of your questions as I possibly can. If you take a look at some of the other threads in the "Brammo" section on the site, you may find some answers to questions you didn't even know you had...

Originally Posted by Z-naught

First, let me provide a frame of reference by stating that I adore the Enertia TTR and consider it as close to my ideal for what I want in an electric motorcycle.

Awesome. The Enertia TTR shows what is capable with current technology, but not yet affordable. I think this statement can be validated by looking at the very cool, but also very expensive product offerings from Mission Motors as well as the recently announced Mavizen "customer" race bike. Keep in mind that Brammo was founded as a performance vehicle company and I have a racing background, so you can be sure that as a company we are focused on offering products that are fun and exhilirating, even if they have a limited top speed (for now).

Originally Posted by Z-naught

Having read Motorcyclist Online's excellent article regarding the various upgrades performed to the Enertia platform to realize the Enertia TTR, I was particularly intrigued by the selection of Perm Motor's PMS 150 W for those slick race bikes. According to Perm Motor's website, the production Enertia employs a PMS 120 L. Given my desire for a TTR style electric motorbike, would it be feasible for an owner to increase the Enertia's performance by replacing the stock PMS 120 L with a larger synchronous motor from Perm Motor, such as the PMS 150 W that was used in the TTR, or even the PMS 156? It appears that Perm's synchronous motors share the same mounting pattern...

Nice job with your research. I'm glad to see that you've taken the initiative to figure out what parts are being used in the Enertia, because I think you'll find they're top notch. Unfortunately, there is no way that the race bike motor would fit in the Enertia frame. The TTR used a custom frame and we made custom end plates for the motor to integrate it as a structural member. However, through the Isle of Man experience, we did learn alot about our motor controller that would allow us to increase performance, which is something we may be able to offer to customers in the very near term.

Originally Posted by Z-naught

The article mentions the use of the front end of a Triumph Daytona 675 on the TTR. It also mentions that it was mounted to a "...a much stronger and stiffer steering head". What sort of front suspension options and geometries are possible given the steering head of the stock frame?

As with other motorcycles, you can adjust the rake of the front end of the bike by playing with where the forks sit in the triple clamps to make the front end lower, which will also cause it to steer faster. This is a modification that Aaron Bland, our Lead Engineer, is planning to make to his bike. Not a big change, something on the order of a .5 - 1.00" drop. I will caution that this will decrease high speed stability, though. The rear shock is fully adjustable - compression, rebound, and pre-load. The same company, Elka, that makes the Enertia rear shock also built us the TTR rear shock.

Originally Posted by Z-naught

What is the feasibility of an owner replacing the stock handlebar with racing type 'clip-ons'? Usage of such would lower the rider's posture and reduce aerodynamic drag, albeit slightly, and also result in a bit of a of café racer aesthetic, of which I'm rather fond.

Is there a way to move the foot pegs rearward to facilitate a low, forward leaning riding posture?

In short: To what extant can an owner modify a stock Enertia to enhance its performance?

Awesome. I've been hoping somebody would take the Enertia the "cafe racer" route. It's been designed for it... we ran clip-ons on our TTXGP promo bike. Here's the modifications we made to it over the course of about a week to get it ready for this last minute...

http://brammoevents.blogspot.com/200...xgp-racer.html

Originally Posted by Z-naught

If the Enertia proves to be amenable to a wide variety of performance enhancing modifications, then I'll run out and buy one. If the Enertia isn't easily modified, then let me suggest that it would behoove Brammo to introduce some changes to future iterations of the bike to allow some flexibility in configuration so that the diverse preferences of riders can be accommodated. Regardless, I think the Enertia is a wonderful achievement and I wish Brammo great success.

Thanks

I hope you come away with the feeling that the Enertia is as customizable as any motorcycle and that with a little creativity, you can end up with a cool, unique expression of what you're looking for in a bike. It might not go 100 mph, but I have no doubt that the performance is enough to put a smile on your face every time you ride. We'd love to have passionate customers that can help us continue to develop the product in the direction they'd like to see it go... if more accessories are needed, then help us by telling us which ones. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to convince you to "run out and buy one"...

[JoeRocket]

Maybe Brammo could partner with Air Tech, to do a modified TZ250 or RS250 kit?

[Z-naught]

Thank you Brian for taking the time to respond to my questions. I think that it's great that you're so willing to engage the public directly on fora such as this. I was very pleased to read the blog post regarding the "racer" styled Enertia that you linked to. It is exciting to see the Enertia rendered as such, and that example would probably serve as a reference for my own modifications were I to buy one. Given the relatively minor nature of those modifications and the rather attractive result (at least to me), I think it would be in Brammo's best interest to offer it at some point as an option for Enertia buyers. My guess is that it wouldn't require significant investment on Brammo's part, and it might make the Enertia more appealing to existing motorcyclists who appreciate the classic café racer aesthetic and/or those who prefer a slightly more aggressive riding style.
Another suggestion would be for Brammo to offer an alternative to the bench style seat, one similar to the tail used on the TTR. My favourite café racer machines are those with small seats and rear 'humps' just behind, and the TTR tail I think would look the part. Hopefully, as the Enertia grows in popularity, after market parts will become available that would address this issue and others.

I do have a few more questions. The 'racer' Enertia built to promote the TTXGP has its clip-ons mounted above the top triple clamp. Would it be a feasible to mount clip-ons below the top triple clamp? Looking at the steering head area, I worry that if the clamps were mounted beneath the top triple clamp they might occasionally impinge on the Enertia's upper body panel, such as in a tight turn.

I was a bit disappointed to learn that the PMS 150 W wouldn't fit into the production Enertia. However, ever eager for an upgrade path, I wonder, would it be possible to install at least the water cooled version of the stock motor, the PMS 120 W? With such an upgrade, along with appropriate software changes, could one not enjoy a little more top end speed? You mentioned custom machined endplates mounted on the TTR's PMS 150 W that allowed it to function as a stressed member (cool idea). Could similar plates, perhaps realized as an after market product, function as a sort of adapter to allow the installation of Perm's various synchronous motors? Or, is there some insurmountable obstacle (lack of space? sprocket alignment problem?) preventing any motor other than the PMS 120 L from being mounted in the production Enertia? Regardless, it is encouraging to know that performance enhancements may be possible by software upgrades to the controller alone.

Though my interest is in a road bike, would it be possible to convert an Enertia for off road duty? Perhaps an off road 'trim' might be feasible for those who enjoy 'supermoto' type bikes?

Thanks again for your time and input.

[gasfreeearth]

Hmmmm, after the inital sales rush is over for the holidays, I think it might be wise for craig to get some aftermarket parts manufacturers to sponser part of that enertia build off. My gears are running in my head and I wish I had an enertia in the shop right now. Brian I hope you and Aaron are ready! (for some fun that is )

[BrammoBrian]

Originally Posted by Z-naught

Thank you Brian for taking the time to respond to my questions. I think that it's great that you're so willing to engage the public directly on fora such as this. I was very pleased to read the blog post regarding the "racer" styled Enertia that you linked to. It is exciting to see the Enertia rendered as such, and that example would probably serve as a reference for my own modifications were I to buy one. Given the relatively minor nature of those modifications and the rather attractive result (at least to me), I think it would be in Brammo's best interest to offer it at some point as an option for Enertia buyers. My guess is that it wouldn't require significant investment on Brammo's part, and it might make the Enertia more appealing to existing motorcyclists who appreciate the classic café racer aesthetic and/or those who prefer a slightly more aggressive riding style.
Another suggestion would be for Brammo to offer an alternative to the bench style seat, one similar to the tail used on the TTR. My favourite café racer machines are those with small seats and rear 'humps' just behind, and the TTR tail I think would look the part. Hopefully, as the Enertia grows in popularity, after market parts will become available that would address this issue and others.

I agree that it would be nice to have more aftermarket accessories available for the Enertia, and it is my belief that these will come with time. In the meantime, I think there's a window of opportunity for those willing to come up with their own "kits" to set the standard or push things in a particular direction. I kind of cringe a bit when I think about a "factory option" cafe racer kit as it definitely robs some of the "cool" out of how cafe racers were traditionally built. I kind of think of customizing a product as a personal adventure and how could a company know exactly what I want? All that said, we'll continue to develop accessories that make sense and would like our customers to have more options when it comes to storage, aesthetics, and performance.

Originally Posted by Z-naught

I do have a few more questions. The 'racer' Enertia built to promote the TTXGP has its clip-ons mounted above the top triple clamp. Would it be a feasible to mount clip-ons below the top triple clamp? Looking at the steering head area, I worry that if the clamps were mounted beneath the top triple clamp they might occasionally impinge on the Enertia's upper body panel, such as in a tight turn.

Yes. You could mount clip-ons beneath the top triple clamp, but you'd need a split clamp like this: http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/Scripts...dproduct=17282 , since you couldn't slide a non-split clamp over the larger diameter of the top section of the fork. Clip-ons would probably limit steering travel a bit, but I doubt it would be a big problem. You just end up steering more with your body and if you drop the forks in the clamps, you'll get back some low-speed "quickness" in the steering. Only one way to find out though... welcome to the world of modding!

Originally Posted by Z-naught

I was a bit disappointed to learn that the PMS 150 W wouldn't fit into the production Enertia. However, ever eager for an upgrade path, I wonder, would it be possible to install at least the water cooled version of the stock motor, the PMS 120 W? With such an upgrade, along with appropriate software changes, could one not enjoy a little more top end speed? You mentioned custom machined endplates mounted on the TTR's PMS 150 W that allowed it to function as a stressed member (cool idea). Could similar plates, perhaps realized as an after market product, function as a sort of adapter to allow the installation of Perm's various synchronous motors? Or, is there some insurmountable obstacle (lack of space? sprocket alignment problem?) preventing any motor other than the PMS 120 L from being mounted in the production Enertia? Regardless, it is encouraging to know that performance enhancements may be possible by software upgrades to the controller alone.

The space available in the chassis is the primary constraint on fitting a larger motor. However, remember that a larger motor won't get you anywhere if you don't have a larger motor controller to run it and the additional battery capacity or power to sustain the additional power delivery. Of the options you've presented, the most feasible would be moving to the PMS 120W as it appears to be of very similar dimension to the current air-cooled motor. It would not be a small job though, as you'd need to run a small radiator (no idea where you'd put it - under the seat?), water pump, and water lines. In our experience, the pump would draw about 1 amp continuously as it is running. The other thing to note is that peak torque on the PMS120W is not increased, only the continuous power. This means that you could run the bike harder for longer before overheating the motor, but you're not going to see a top speed advantage without playing around with gearing, which you could do.

Originally Posted by Z-naught

Though my interest is in a road bike, would it be possible to convert an Enertia for off road duty? Perhaps an off road 'trim' might be feasible for those who enjoy 'supermoto' type bikes?

Thanks again for your time and input.

All that's required is a good set of 50/50 or 80/20 tires... we test extensively on the forestry roads and trails around Ashland. Here are some fun photos...

[jorhyne]

Interesting pic in the snow Brian, forgive me if you've posted this elsewhere but what kind of hit to performance are you seeing in colder temperatures? I know its been a pretty big issue for a lot of car and bike conversions that are using lifepo4 cells.

[BrammoBrian]

Originally Posted by jorhyne

Interesting pic in the snow Brian, forgive me if you've posted this elsewhere but what kind of hit to performance are you seeing in colder temperatures? I know its been a pretty big issue for a lot of car and bike conversions that are using lifepo4 cells.

There's a slight decrease in performance once ambient temperature start getting down around freezing. I've been riding pretty continuously over the past couple of weeks and it was down to 29 degrees F for a couple of the rides. What I noticed is more reluctance of the batteries to give up high discharge currents, but not so much that it felt slow or dangerous. Just enough to be perceivable. The range of the bike would almost certainly be impacted as well, which is another of the reasons we were getting around 35 miles/charge at the beginning of the Shocking Barack journey when we were riding in 34 degree ambient temps versus the 40-45 miles we enjoyed once the batts were balanced and we hit a bit of Indian summer rolling through Pennsylvania.

I have noticed that much of this can be offset if you've got a heated or semi-heated area that you can keep the bike in to charge. My garage doesn't cut it, but if I pull the bike into our shop at work, by the time I'm ready to head out the whole bike is up to room temperature and performing like a champ. This is probably the only reason I've been able to notice the performance difference between a "cold" bike and a "warm" one. Long story short, there is a decrease, but from an owner perspective, I'm quite impressed by how minimal it is. With the chance of black ice being fairly high out here in the winter, I don't think I'll ride much if the temperature gets much below the 29F I rode in last week.